It has to mark a radically new way. The second has to do with the science half. But science also changes. In the final debrief of the course I observed , one of the students enthusiastically praised what he had learned, particularly the classroom portions.
Uh, the Kool-Aid, right. Be careful with that because tomorrow I may change the flavor. Nothing is set in stone. There are things that constantly change. Every trainer has a system or model they follow, some better than others. Shooting skills, while important, need to be tempered by good decision making skills, i. Like Liked by 1 person. In terms of producing tangible results, I think that the students could shoot better on day 3 than day 1. Of note, one guy whose target looked like it was shot with a scattergun on the first day hit a B-zone steel target at yards on his second shot.
Unfortunately it was my shooting partner and I am now noticing how big of a fan boy he is I am all for people making money and also people digging what he has to say i think he knows his stuff but to only do what he does is weird to me. There are so many other trainers out there, I do not know why people become so fixated on Travis Haley and Chris Costa but not Frank Proctor and Kyle Defoor who are awesome trainers in their own rights.
Haley and Costa marketed themselfs really well with the Magpul videos and made them famous. It wasn't until last year I heard of Defoor. I get what Haley is saying about seven year old training videos.
They had good info on them. Things of changed since Training has changed, tactics have changes and equipment has changed. I saw a couple of training tips from Defoor on Youtube. I like the way he does things. Interesting about the video company. I never know. Whores all of you, i swear i was glad i was the guy in the background all those years and at least go tot change a a lot of the old stuff to what I felt it should have been Sigh never did i sign one autograph or ask for my picture taken thank god unless it was with buddies that were at class.
Most regular folks would likely be shocked that many of the "biggest" and most visible names in the firearms training industry are not necessarily the best individuals to actually train with. This should probably go into its own thread, but who do you think are the best individuals to train with? It would make a great thread that would surely gather an audience.
What would be a better video set to pick up these days? Agree strongly. Most of the qualities that people look for in an instructor operational time, youtube channels and social media presence, branded gear, etc. Similarly, most people are ill-equipped to evaluate the training they receive d in any sort of objective way, certainly for their first half-dozen classes or so. However, outside of anything dangerous on the range think, Tactical Response or dangerous "on the streets", the repetition you'll get at a day class is probably better than not shooting at all.
I'm just glad that I started training before the internet clogged things up. If I started now, I would be quite confused as to whom to train with. I could probably teach an entire class based on this sentence alone. You go to these folks to maybe hear things different so it sticks better for how you learn, and to get issues diagnosed. We have figured out that visually verifying that your sights are on, and pressing a trigger straight to the rear with follow through to do it again simply works.
It is getting folks to do it correctly, and then the advanced version is doing it under less than optimal conditions, which leads to the classes for doing the same thing in the dark, and while working cars or structures.
Simple, but not easy. Of course the other part is proper application to when to press the trigger on a person, or in the competition realm, on a target.
You know, this is exactly why I'm always shoving people towards the Shivworks courses. I've had some big-name pistol and rifle instruction, and it's all pretty similar and once you've got your head around the fundamentals, it's pretty much all the same.
I also had a chance to talk with a few people that worked with Haley at Magpul and Magpul Dynamics. They told me that he left on good terms and you will still see him helping the Magpul team as a consultant.
They only had good things to say about his passionate, yet intellectual approach to his duties as a executive and as an instructor. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2. Both comments and pings are currently closed. Hopefully not. That was a lot of words over an ND. First Costa in Japan, now this! I love SSD and check the page out twice a day. Things tend to get crazy on this blog over the smallest things. We sure are, distraught.
ND becomes react to contact. They must have run away…. It seems both parties are at fault. Panteao for allowing this video to get out thru one of their instructors whether they gave permission or not and for Haley for not owning up to his own mistake.
As usual, the Internet take things and makes them worse, if for no other reason then to watch the world burn. Why was this on a YouTube channel in any form or fashion to begin with? A media publishing house like Panteao should no better. End of story on that issue. There is no way in my mind that he was simply upset about the lack of ear pro. He messed up and knows it. To them they made it more important that no one was wear ear pros. Not the fact that he shot a round with a projectile flying out with the ability to kill someone.
Every time you pull the trigger you have a persons life on the the other end. So screw the ear pro. That excerpt from what appears to be Facebook appears to be taken out of context. Out of context? He very well could have been answering a series of questions that makes that statement alone seem a little weird. So, I would like to know how the whole conversation went, not just a little part of it. This was on my wall. Human memory is extremely fallible. Unfortunately, video does not forget, and Panteao felt the need to make him look foolish in revenge.
Never trained with Travis, but I have a lot of respect for him, and I find myself highly disappointed in how he handled this. This was a fantastic opportunity to use his own mistake as a teaching opportunity AND to still come out smelling like roses. Instead, it appears he chose to deny he made any mistake other than forgetting to put on his earpro. My 2 cents anyway. A very wise man once told me that there are two kinds of gun owners. Those who have had NDs and those who will.
I watched a former member of a very famous sf group, straight off a contract deployment have an ND. It happens. The bolt is not meant to be released with the trigger finger mostly inside the trigger guard. Cant even remember how many times I closed the bolt when I did not want to because I bumped the thing with my finger OUT of the trigger guard.
All of those times were on a empty rifle no mag but I did not once want to close it when it happened, making me re-open the bolt. I never had a problem with the BAD Lever. I used it extensively on issued and personal rifles without issue. I only stopped using it because after switching it back and forth between rifles the metal wore down enough to be very loose when mounted on the bolt catch.
I was 10 years old sitting on a log with a. Playing with the safety, checking to see if it worked. It did. One was a Broomhandle Mauser with a safety that was stuck. When the safety came off, BAM. Fortunately, the pistol was pointed downrange. The second was with a rifle that belonged to a Deputy that was a sniper. While getting set, I accidentally brushed the trigger with my finger, and BAM. Again, the rifle was pointed downrange. If they are going to release anything that the instructor is not happy with or finds offensive or misleading and that person asks that that film not be used and they go back and dig up video and post it or allow others to post it online later then who will trust them in the future?
It shows lack of respect and a media circus mentality that some love to tune in for. It was released for all to see for a reason and the question needs to be asked why did they post it and what were their motives. Where is that written? Have you ever been in the military? Do you know the full details of how this got leaked? If so let us know if not you should read what you wrote and not create more drama. His response shows he blew that opportunity. Larry is so on point!
Come on. Panteo owns it, they can do whatever they want with it. They could have included that in a blooper reel if they wanted and Travis would not have any say in the matter, and they definitely have every right to use the footage as internal training material. Like Panteo said in their respones, Travis was the…talent. He was doing a job, just like any other actor making movies. Given that he seems to be criticising the two methods he was describing I thought the discharge of the rifle rather proved his point.
I agree. It really drove home the danger of indexing the trigger guard through the trigger well. He was demonstrating methods that he thought were unsafe and happened to have an ND in the process. Pretty clear demonstration that they are terrible methods. Its too bad the rifle was loaded.
That along with not immediately acknowledging the ND are the only things I think he did wrong. We all make mistakes though, even the best out there will slip up. We are human after all. I think it was good that the rifle was loaded and went off otherwise we would not have seen how dangerous the techniques were. Without one up the spout there would have been no effect.
He was very professional, full of knowledge, very down to earth but most importantly safe. There was 2 other fellow Marines attending the course with me and along with Brannon LeBouef as the A-Instructor we Leathernecks got along well.
Having said that, I am surprised to see how Haley responded to this situation. I just watched the video, and that was definitely an ND and that should have been included in the official released videos as a good teaching tool. It can happen to anyone. Looks to me like Panteao is trying to push the release off on an unnamed instructor. Haley or the people working for him did not respond well. It proved his point about keeping the finger on the trigger guard with the gun on safe.
Attitude reflects leadership.
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